DevForce Community Forum : Any experiences with scaling out with BOS http://www.ideablade.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; DevForce Community Forum : DevForce Classic : Any experiences with scaling out with BOS Sat, 11 Apr 2026 04:15:07 -700 Wed, 03 Apr 2013 19:00:43 -700 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 9.69 360 www.ideablade.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=4016 DevForce Community Forum http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_images/IdeaBlade_logo_tm.png http://www.ideablade.com/forum/ Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Thanks for the follow up and links!... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16166#16166 Author: kimj
Subject: 4016
Posted: 03-Apr-2013 at 7:00pm

Thanks for the follow up and links!]]> Wed, 03 Apr 2013 19:00:43 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16166#16166 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Some links on the matter (increasing... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16164#16164 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 03-Apr-2013 at 11:16am

Some links on the matter (increasing connection limit of 2 on the client side):
Last comment by TWiStErRob:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/netfxnetcom/thread/1f863f20-09f9-49a5-8eee-17a89b591007
Topic opening post:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/866350/how-can-i-programmatically-remove-the-2-connection-limit-in-webclient
Some people are complaining about the fact that 2 is some kind of RFC standard (for HTTP 1.1?), but honestly I don't care.
]]> Wed, 03 Apr 2013 11:16:32 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16164#16164 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Finally I figured it out. In our... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16163#16163 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 03-Apr-2013 at 10:56am

Finally I figured it out. In our case I made the following changes to our app.config (as opposed to the one you linked, which defines channels and providers and whatnot):
  <system.net>    <connectionManagement>      <clear/>      <add address="*" maxconnection="10"/>    </connectionManagement>  </system.net>
That seem to increase the "clientConnectionLimit" limit also. In my test setup I managed to get more dummy RPC work processed in parallel this way.

]]> Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:56:11 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16163#16163 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : The .ibconfig information is for... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16061#16061 Author: kimj
Subject: 4016
Posted: 19-Mar-2013 at 4:15pm

The .ibconfig information is for DevForce only, and is not used by the Remoting system. Generally, if you don't include a .config file with the system.runtime.remoting section, DevForce will configure remoting using information in the .ibconfig, along with both DevForce and Remoting defaults.

Here, since you need to modify a configuration setting which is not supported within the .ibconfig file, you'll need to specify the system.runtime.remoting information entirely so that the Remoting system can auto-configure from the .config file.

I'm not sure what other settings you might have in your web.config file (eg, for authentication), but based on the .ibconfig information you show and the .config file I sent previously, the only change needed to the info in the .config is to set the correct URL:

url="http://10.10.131.118/BOS/PersistenceServer.rem"

You'll still need your .ibconfig file too, as DevForce will still use that. So, on the client side, you'll have both the .ibconfig and .config files, or you can consolidate into a .config file containing both DevForce and Remoting information.

Also make sure that the references to the DevForce assemblies are set as "copy local" so that the assemblies will be copied to your application bin folder.]]> Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:15:57 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16061#16061 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Hi kimj,Could you give more... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16060#16060 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 19-Mar-2013 at 3:10pm

Hi kimj,

Could you give more instructions to the app.config. The thing is that we configure the RPC in the IdeaBlade.ibconfig, there's a section in it:
  <remoting>    <remotePersistenceEnabled>true</remotePersistenceEnabled>    <communicationsTechnology>Remoting</communicationsTechnology>		<remoteBaseURL>http://10.10.131.118</remoteBaseURL>		<serverPort>80</serverPort>		<serviceName>BOS/PersistenceServer.rem</serviceName>		<serverDetectTimeoutMilliseconds>0</serverDetectTimeoutMilliseconds>    <proxyPort>0</proxyPort>  </remoting>
This corresponds to the IdeaBlade.Util.IdeaBladeConfig.RemotingInfoclass. If I add the section what you sent to our app.config, I get exceptions. I tried to remove portions of it (for example the client/welknown) to trim it down to the barely needed from.
The exceptions are below:
uploads/1737/clientconnlimit_exception1.txt
uploads/1737/clientconnlimit_exception2.txt

I think the exception comes from the client side. The Ideablade.Persistence.dll should be accessible to the binary, but that FileNotFoundException maybe just some aftermath, and the original one is the System.Runtime.Remoting.RemotingConfigHandler.ConfigureRemoting? The second exception comes when I remove the client section. I'm scratching my head.


Edited by ctoth - 19-Mar-2013 at 3:20pm]]> Tue, 19 Mar 2013 15:10:17 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16060#16060 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : To anybody who reads this thread:... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16048#16048 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 18-Mar-2013 at 1:33pm

To anybody who reads this thread: this (clientConnectionLimit) is about legacy RPC communication and not for WCF.(The stateless behavior of BOS is true for every setup though).

Edited by ctoth - 18-Mar-2013 at 1:34pm]]> Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:33:22 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16048#16048 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Thank you so much! I couldn&#039;t... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16047#16047 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 18-Mar-2013 at 1:28pm

Thank you so much! I couldn't find that!]]> Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:28:49 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16047#16047 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Regarding the issue with... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16046#16046 Author: kimj
Subject: 4016
Posted: 18-Mar-2013 at 12:00pm

Regarding the issue with only 2 connections from a client at one time - this is the default setting for a client remoting channel. To change it you can set the clientConnectionLimit in a client-side app.config file.  I've attached a sample.
 
uploads/11/App.zip
]]> Mon, 18 Mar 2013 12:00:31 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=16046#16046 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : BTW, multiple BOS setup is just... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15981#15981 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 12-Mar-2013 at 4:35pm

BTW, multiple BOS setup is just like that. The BOS really seems to be stateless and that allows using more of them. I'll try Network Load Balancing setup soon.
]]> Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:35:18 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15981#15981 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : I was experimenting a little with... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15980#15980 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 12-Mar-2013 at 4:30pm

I was experimenting a little with BOSes. We use remoting/RPC instead of WCF to connect to the BOS. In order to rule out the effect of database blocking to the results I just introduced dummy work to be done on the server (Thread.Sleep). The following finding is true for a single BOS setup: I went up to 10 connected clients. Their work tasks executed parallelly on the server, but not more than 2 at a time from a given client. So if all the 8 clients issued 10 work tasks request of 20 seconds of work at the same time, than a pair of work items executed at once only at a time. So 20 work items were done after 20 seconds, the next 20 (a pair of tasks from each client) the next 20 seconds and so on.
This is even true if I connect with a single client to the BOS and issue 15 tasks. Only a pair is executed at once.

Question: what kind of parameter or setting causes that? Is there a configuration or properties switch which tunes thread pool size or connection pool size for the BOS? ASP.NET has a 25 thread/CPU default limit, but maybe that's only for the web server core listener which spawns the actual worker threads later? Is there some configuration for the BOS itself?

Thanks,
Csaba
]]> Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:30:51 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15980#15980 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Thanks. You are indeed using... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15954#15954 Author: sbelini
Subject: 4016
Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 12:05pm

Thanks.

You are indeed using DevForce Classic.

The answer still applies though.

sbelini.]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:05:41 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15954#15954 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : The exact version is &#034;3.7.5.0&#034;. ... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15952#15952 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 11:35am

The exact version is "3.7.5.0".]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:35:27 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15952#15952 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : No problem. I&#039;m moving it.... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15951#15951 Author: sbelini
Subject: 4016
Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 11:26am

No problem. I'm moving it.]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:26:49 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15951#15951 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : You are right. I wanted to... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15950#15950 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 11:16am

You are right. I wanted to say DevForce Classic. I guess I opened this topic in the wrong forum.


Edited by ctoth - 06-Mar-2013 at 11:26am]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:16:05 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15950#15950 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : There is not &#034;Classic version... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15948#15948 Author: sbelini
Subject: 4016
Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 11:05am

There is not "Classic version of DevForce 2010".

What is the exact DevForce version number you are using? (You can see it in any DevForce assembly)]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:05:01 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15948#15948 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Thanks for the heads up sbelini.I... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15947#15947 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 10:35am

Thanks for the heads up sbelini.
I realized that I forgot to mention a very important fact: we use the Classic version of DevForce 2010, not the version for EntityFramework. I think your statements (except notification) are true for the classic also. I need to look at how refetch goes with Classic.
I'm new to IdeaBlade BTW.
]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 10:35:32 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15947#15947 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : Csaba, - Entity caching is not... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15946#15946 Author: sbelini
Subject: 4016
Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 10:02am

Csaba,

- Entity caching is not done on the server, only on the clients.
The server does users and metadata only. In case a client hit a different server, (i.e. in load balancing) the user will be re-logged in the second server.

- As for "catches" 1 & 2, the client will need to refetch the entities in order to updated. A way to "know" entities were changed would be subscribing to a push service.
- DevForce does not do anything in special in regards to multithreading - this task is left for the OS to manage.

sbelini.

Edited by sbelini - 06-Mar-2013 at 12:06pm]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 10:02:51 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15946#15946 Any experiences with scaling out with BOS : We will probably need to scale... http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15938#15938 Author: ctoth
Subject: 4016
Posted: 04-Mar-2013 at 9:49am

We will probably need to scale out for some big customers in the near future. We use DevForce 2010 currently with a desktop application solution. We will perform some experiments but I want to go ahead and query the experience of other folks here regarding this matter.
Our plan is to deploy BOS to multiple servers, those would serve as a load balanced tier above the DB tier. I haven't found too many topics about this, a couple of them suggests that using Windows Server's load balancing feature should just work. I also found a Word document white paper titled "DevForce Business Object Server Performance". That says:

"Scalability

Since the Business Object Server is effectively stateless,the server scales very well and there are a number of good options ifadditional performance is required:

  • Use a high-end processor - Since the server is not memory-bound, the throughput scales well with increasing clock speed.
  • Use more processing units – Moving to a quad core processor or a multi-socket configuration will increase throughput by about 80% for every doubling of processing units.
Add more servers – This effectively adds moreprocessing units but scales almost linearly because the memory subsystem is notshared among cores."

Please confirm that the caching is done on the client side and the BOS is absolutely stateless. That would really mean that it can scale out easily. At the same time I'm wondering where is the catch. Because there's always one. Right now I can see two catches:

1. The freshness of the client-side cache. If one client modifies a bunch of business object, when will another client through another BOS (or the same BOS) see that?

2. What if we have also some stored procedures which goes down to the DB tier and manipulates the data in bulk (for performance reasons).

Extra question from the quoted section: how multi-threaded is the BOS? The doc states to "use more processing units". BOS will take automatically advantage of extra cores?

Thanks,

Csaba]]> Mon, 04 Mar 2013 09:49:42 -700 http://www.ideablade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4016&PID=15938#15938